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Social Problems
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Zeerahks
Dirty Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 311


Location: Minnesota

Post  Reply with quote
Yes, we do.

Shrooms are mushrooms when I don't feel like typing the whole thing.  Very Happy

Oh, and I'll gladly be a veggie for conveniences sake.

_________________
"The words work...sometimes."


They say one shouldn't shit where one eats, but there are more types of shit than feces, and we consume much more than food.
-- Black Iron Prison


Fuck competition.  LOVE IS COOPERATION.  And I like being loved. Very Happy
Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:30 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
glorfon
Comrade


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 469



Post Reply with quote
On the topic of social problems.  My girlfriend keeps asking what we'll do if there's some one on the commune who refuses to do their share of the work?
Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:06 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
FightTheGoodFight



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 16



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well i would think that would depend on the circumstances. like if they are sick and are unable to do their work then i say no problem. but if they just flat out refuse, then i would think that the person should be warned against not participating, and if that does not work then either kick them out or no food for them.

kinda harsh but there is no way that this could work without everyone pulling there own weight.

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If you find yourself lost in the woods, fuck it, build a house. Well, I was lost but now I live here. I have severely improved my predicament.
Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:48 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
UnMeilleurReve
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 542


Location: Las Vegas

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Glor, that sounds like the typical "what if somebody doesn't do their fair share" argument that every anarchist hears 100000000000 times. The thing is, if you're not interested in putting everything you've to in this, according to your ability, which will increase as time goes by unless you become ill, then you shouldn't be in these forums and you shouldn't go to the commune. We do reserve the right as a group to expel any member from our midst, as a unanimous decision by the other members, for anybody who is destructive, outright lazy, or otherwise maladaptive, if I remember correctly, and if not, we should agree to do so. We have the right to a freedom of association, and somebody who is attempting to use a group of people for their own gain is no anarchist and belongs nowhere near a commune.

We also have to take into account the possibly, though unlikely, circumstance in which somebody might refuse to do work in protest of something that has happened or is happening, in which case they might be justified. We need to avoid group polarization (which is something that can be done by bringing new people with different outlooks into our group).

Finally, I present my eternal justification: if we're not going to trust each other to do our fair share and treat each other respectfully and benevolently, we shouldn't do this. Personally, I'm in this to give it my all and I'm wholly and openly trusting everybody else to know what they're getting into and to put in just as much.

Again, we plan to have systems of dealing with decisions that are touchy, do we not? And is everybody planning on giving this their attention, energy, effort, and trust?

If we have trust and trustworthiness, then your girlfriend has no basis for her qualms unless they become somehow rationalized and/or realized, in which case the decision needs to be made based upon the unique circumstances surrounding the situation, which has harsh wording but I do not mean harshly. It's a tired old argument...
Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:18 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Zeerahks
Dirty Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 311


Location: Minnesota

Post Reply with quote
Agreed, but it's a good question.

_________________
"The words work...sometimes."


They say one shouldn't shit where one eats, but there are more types of shit than feces, and we consume much more than food.
-- Black Iron Prison


Fuck competition.  LOVE IS COOPERATION.  And I like being loved. Very Happy
Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:28 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
UnMeilleurReve
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 542


Location: Las Vegas

Post Reply with quote
lol. The question is can people work together and do what they're "supposed to" without the incentive of profit, if you look down to the root causes, is it not? As a counterpoint, I offer the evidence of chronic depression, a decades-long "mental health epidemic," and the phenomenon known as the "midlife crisis," all of which I assert can be tied directly to the economic, social, political, and religious operation that runs this "country," also referred to as "convoluted and distorted schema of people trying to create a grouping larger than is feasible or realistic in order to centralize power and manufacture scarcity for its own survival." I offer, then, the counter-plan that we, instead of relying on profit motive and economic incentive, endeavor to reject the concept of "original sin" and try to work against pathological laziness and social loafing via a populace educated in psychology and group dynamics working together to create a sustainable and morally just way of living.

The counter-plan to money, profit, capital, god, state, and convoluted social schema, is this: a commune. In it, people will endeavor to trust each other to begin the project of creating a self-sufficient and self-sustaining agricultural society of a logical size. Decision making should be made upon a unanimous consensus when possible, and all individual freedoms should be established and observed on a moral, value-based ground. If any member of the commune cannot overcome the pathological conditioning instilled upon them by parents, society, community, school, state, economy, or religion, and thus makes themselves incompatible for this endeavor by means of sheer laziness or the phenomenon known as social loafing (a phenomenon which can be minimalized by establishing working groups of 8 or less responsible to themselves), they can be expelled or "banished" from the commune, hereby known as "Populus Terra" by the members of the community who feel that they are harmed or put at a detriment due to this person.

Furthermore, this entire endeavor, so far as I am to understand it, is based upon concepts of charity, self-sufficiency, mutual aid, community, and living as real people, with strong ties to "anarchist" principles, and as such should rely on those principles as well as those established by the members of Populus Terra (excluding those felt to be a hindrance or otherwise unnecessary, of course). If the principles named earlier that current society are to be understood as maladapted and "cancerous," if you will, then these most recently elaborated principles act as their counterpoint or antithesis and should hopefully promote openness, happiness, the ability to thrive, trust, community, and a variety of other nice, happy, shiny thing that we like.

Oh, and trust and trustworthiness. Lots and lots of that. A big "go away now" if there isn't for those who muck up the works?


Good answer?
Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:46 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
FightTheGoodFight



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 16



Post Reply with quote
i would say a very excellent answer

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If you find yourself lost in the woods, fuck it, build a house. Well, I was lost but now I live here. I have severely improved my predicament.
Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:11 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
vov35
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 553



Post Reply with quote
I think he took some classes in debating... not that its hard to win when making a valid point...

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I have an american dream--
...but it invovles black masks and gasoline
Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:17 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
UnMeilleurReve
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 542


Location: Las Vegas

Post Reply with quote
I'm on the debate team in college, lol. And I was pres of the debate team in high-school, but that was only a filler position because somebody needed to do it. My current specialty is parliamentary debate, used to be Lincoln-Douglas, and I got my start in policy debate.

The point of that, however, wasn't to make it technical and debatey. If you look at it closely, I hoped to very succinctly address several of the issues that we're going to hear from a lot of people and potentially from ourselves by answering with information we discussed here in the forums.
Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:05 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
vov35
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 553



Post Reply with quote
lol every other word is debate OMFGZ



_________________
I have an american dream--
...but it invovles black masks and gasoline
Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:09 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
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