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Zeerahks
Dirty Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 311


Location: Minnesota

Post Social Problems  Reply with quote
There's an important part of confined group living that we're overlooking, and that is: confined group living.

There are two aspects to this, the social and the personal.  The social aspects concern (obviously), what happens to a group of people confined together.  While the personal, on the flip side of the coin, concerns what happens to the individual people.

On a personal level, being confined to a small space can cause insomnia, depression, hostility, and even schizophrenia.  Another possible effect is extreme mood swings.  Paranoia is also possible.  Now, this info was taken from info about people who "winter-over" in Antarctica bases, but I personally believe that the effects could be very similar to any person confined to a small area and a small group of people.  Another major problem is the effect of social isolation on territorialism.  Combined with increased hostility and paranoia, this can lead to extreme physical violence.

Socially, during "normal" times, many people cannot keep their noses to themselves.  If a friend is having a problem, many people feel obligated, even compelled, to interfere (often justified as trying to help).  If two friends are having problems, the entire group can become split along supporting lines.  I myself have seen this happen twice, once as an observer of the conflict, and once as a primary person in the conflict.  Let me tell you, friendships broken this way rarely heal.  When confined together in a small group, with everyone reading more into what is said than they should, this problem increases exponentially.

Now, I personally believe that in our case, these problems can be managed, if not completely eliminated.  The problems that occur on the personal level arise mainly as a result of the feeling of isolation.  In our case, while we are isolated underground, we should make as much effort as possible to spend our time aboveground.  That way we know, consciously or not, that we are not isolated in the least.  Another important thing is to never threaten or coerce people who express desires to leave.  Many people are born wanderers (myself included), and being told that they can't leave will cause the same feelings of being trapped.

Socially, there are a number of things we can do in order to reduce the detrimental effects of confined group living.  First off, and most importantly, is the existance of a personal room, or bedroom, for every person.  Yes, this means more work, but it will confine (hopefully) the feelings of territoriality.  Another part to this is the unspoken rule: a person's room is his private sanctuary: uninvited intrusions are the worst offense possible and should be treated as such.  To assuage other problems, the important thing is to have many, many group activities.

But most important of all: a person's business is his or her own.  Like their room, a person's business can only be meddled in with their permission.  Any other meddling should be treated as the worst crime.  And, if you think about it, it is.  Meddling will threaten the integrity of the group, which is one of the most important things about any small group.  Especially ours, since we are already outside of "normal" society.

----

Now, I know that many of us are anarchists; I am.  However, I feel that is will be/is necessary to define certain rules that act as law withing the commune.  I personally don't have a problem living with rules (practical, non-idiotic ones) and being an anarchist at the same time.

This thread can be used to discuss the implications of social problems.  I would suggest a separate one for discussing and determining possible rules (or guidelines for life, depending on how you want to couch it).

----

You can read more about social problems here:

http://www.eastandard.net/archive.../executives/upfront/upfront02.htm
http://scicom.ucsc.edu/scinotes/0001/crazy.htm

[I apologize for the long post, but it's necessary to get all the info in.  Plus it's late.  Late late latelatealtealtealeta;letha;skldjcnlarubvj.  Bleagh]

_________________
"The words work...sometimes."


They say one shouldn't shit where one eats, but there are more types of shit than feces, and we consume much more than food.
-- Black Iron Prison


Fuck competition.  LOVE IS COOPERATION.  And I like being loved. Very Happy
Mon May 19, 2008 1:00 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
glorfon
Comrade


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 469



Post Reply with quote
Obviously certain rules do need to be set down.  Anarchy is just the absence of rulers not rules.  In anachry the whole community enforces the rules.  What these rules will be I don't know.

You're right that staying outside will be important for ot feeling isolated as will group activities.  However the good news is we're right inbetween two small town so If you ever need some time off the commune you can always just take a short bike ride into Gladbrook.  Also I want to make it clear that no one will be abligated to stay.
Mon May 19, 2008 12:59 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
vov35
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 553



Post Reply with quote
the way i see it, there will be no "head" of our commune, but the laws will be enforced by ppl as a whole.

we're not confined to the 20 acres tho... nothing to keep us from walking off in our free time...

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I have an american dream--
...but it invovles black masks and gasoline
Mon May 19, 2008 1:05 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
UnMeilleurReve
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 542


Location: Las Vegas

Post Reply with quote
Wow, I didn't see this... Weird.

Anywho, I'm going to arrange for an independent study on this subject specifically, with specific focus on preventing and resolving potential conflicts. I totally agree that the aforementioned conflict caused neigh-irreparable divisions, especially since both sides of supporters are right (mind you, this is me being a subjectivist).

Also, when it comes to situations like these, I'm inclined to think that we'll become somewhat of a family. If there's anything I know about family, it's that you NEED to get the hell away from them and have time of your own with people who are just friends, etc.

As for rules, it seems like those of us who will definitely be staying here are most comfortable with the less rigid "value" system, though it should be obviously outlined in the form of rules no assault, rape, murder, etc., just so that the information is there.



On the note of buildings and sanctuaries, we should have 1 building that is cozey like a house totally dedicated to group activity, and we should definitely have the whole "room that is sanctuary" thing going on. I also think we should have more than just a wall separating rooms (a hallway, etc.) and if we have multiple stories, no room should be above or below the other, if at all possible. maybe we can have a room in each opposite corner, 4 per house for a 2 story (up far-left, up back-right, down far-right, down back-left).
Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:34 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
vov35
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 553



Post Reply with quote
hmmm... heres a rule that sums that crap up: don't get pigs called on us.

_________________
I have an american dream--
...but it invovles black masks and gasoline
Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:37 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Zeerahks
Dirty Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 311


Location: Minnesota

Post Reply with quote
vov35 wrote:
hmmm... heres a rule that sums that crap up: don't get pigs called on us.


Hmm...not really.  Did you read it all?

_________________
"The words work...sometimes."


They say one shouldn't shit where one eats, but there are more types of shit than feces, and we consume much more than food.
-- Black Iron Prison


Fuck competition.  LOVE IS COOPERATION.  And I like being loved. Very Happy
Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:36 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Selkie
Dirty Hippy


Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 225


Location: California :(

Post Reply with quote
As for social stuff...as long as we don't needlessly isolate ourselves, we'll be fine.

Let's hang out together when we want to, or we could do something like every friday or once a month, go out to the town together and watch a movie or do something else. Something where, we can have fun outside our commune, and we don't have to worry about any of us getting mugged, and it brings us closer together.

Also, if any one of us just wants to walk out and walk around town or do something, there shouldn't be a problem unless they're always doing that and not their work.

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What he said.
Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:54 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
vov35
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 553



Post Reply with quote
zeeranks... i was refering to the " no assault, rape, murder, etc" part.

_________________
I have an american dream--
...but it invovles black masks and gasoline
Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:30 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Guest








Post Reply with quote
I can see a lot of conflicts arising between the veg*ans and the omnivores in the commune.  If you think about it, if a meat-eater wants to raise pigs for food, for example, I guarantee you the veggies of the group are going to do anything possible to keep that from happening.  I can see a LOT of conflicts arising out of this.

This definitely needs to be discussed.
Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:27 pm
Zeerahks
Dirty Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 311


Location: Minnesota

Post Reply with quote
I don't see the problem.  There's no reason for a vegan/vegetarian to give an omnivore shit (if the animals are being treated unethically, it's a different story), just for eating habits.  It's petty.  As long as the veg*ans are not required to help with tasks relating to the animals (which, IMO, is fair), I don't see why there should be any conflict at all.  The way I see it, whether or not a person eats meat is their business and, like religion, we have no right trying to change them.



_________________
"The words work...sometimes."


They say one shouldn't shit where one eats, but there are more types of shit than feces, and we consume much more than food.
-- Black Iron Prison


Fuck competition.  LOVE IS COOPERATION.  And I like being loved. Very Happy
Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:41 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
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