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Zeerahks

Urban Commune

(moved from Acorn Community thread)

This study is about Urban Communities, and has a lot of interesting information: http://ncane.com/4iv

The most common problems with urban communes are:

Noise/mess
Space
Privacy
Division of chores
Rent(/money)

If we do seriously consider the idea of an urban commune (Sacramento-based or not), we should probably try to address these issues beforehand.

I'll start by laying out a few ideas.

---

Privacy

Since we don't have the luxury of individual housing (as in the rural commune), it seems best to me for each person to have their own room with the other commune members understanding and accepting that each person's room is their private sanctuary: not to be disturbed except under permission or the gravest of circumstances.

---

Rent/Money

Apparently (from the pdf above), a number of urban communes require around 60-70 dollars per month from their members.  These were mostly located in Canada, though, so this may have to be tailored to other places.

If a member has the money, then there should be no question that it should be given.  Hoarding is a serious problem for communes if it happens, and should be dealt with.  However, if a member can't pay for the month, then there's a few other considerations.  If this is an oft-repeated thing (regular inability to pay), the member should be given an ultimatum: find a job (or some such thing).  If this hasn't happened before (or is, for some reason, a special circumstance), then the other members should do what they can to make up the difference.  We're a community (a family, really), and everyone should help each other if they can.

---

Division of chores

This is a fairly easy one.  Many communes rotate chores on a weekly or bi-weekly schedule.  There are exceptions, of course.  Cooking, for instance, tends to stay within a subset of one to two people (the people who can cook more than Ramen? Very Happy )

We could attack this from a couple different ways.  First, we could simply have (bi-)weekly rotations (with the exception of skill-based chores such as cooking).  Another way to do it would be to have some sort of preference-based system, where the chance of getting a chore you prefer is greater than the chance of getting one you dislike.

In the end, though, it kinda boils down to accepting the chore you're giving and not complaining.  After the week (or two) is up, someone else has to do it.

---

(I'm stopping there, for now.  It's late)
vov35

I'd still complain... but I would do the chore FFS.
Selkie

Wow, thanks for doing all the hard work! Razz

The only problem I see with this is: some people might not be able to move before college, even if they can transfer (like myself), and jobs are hard to come by right now.
UnMeilleurReve

I'm writing up my thoughts in a journal and transposing them to the internet in a bit because I have limited access to electronics. However, I thought I'd throw out a few things since this discussion has already started (yay!).

First, I think the private sanctuary thing is a necessity whether rural or urban. I've been having that problem a lot...

Second, chores should be restructured. It should be the rule to clean your mess as you make it under all circumstances: this reduces stress immensely and keeps things always orderly.

Third, if we make a fund of some sort that all excess money goes into (we should live very frugally if at all possible), and keep working on the rural idea, we can eventually move into a rural setting. Either that, or we can buy and build on land in the city and make our commune right in the middle of the city (I have to admit, civilization, culture, and utilities are all very handy to have).

Fourth, on the note of diet, I've discovered that having one's body function normally needs ample nutrition, and I've had to fall back from my vegetarian diet because my body and mind haven't been functioning properly after an extended veggie diet. If we were to prefer a veggie diet, we'd need to make sure supplements, etc. are always available, and doing it healthy is hard.


Anywho, hope everybody's break is treating them well. I'm in Salmon, ID, right now because I'm out a place to live again... Homeless and in college is really difficult, lol, especially when you can't afford books.
Zeerahks

Great ideas!  I can't wait to read your journal!

Another thing I forgot to mention is the Decision-Making process.

(from the article I mentioned before) This process is very diverse between communities.  Some have twice-weekly meetings where all things are discussed.   Other communes refrain from formal meetings and instead resolve all conflicts and decisions over a large group meal (usually supper or dinner).  Still others have one formal meeting per week (attendance required) and a number of informal meetings (attendance optional).

This might be something we'd want to experiment with.  Try a different strategy every month or two until we find one that works best.  That or we could just pick one and make it work.
Selkie

I've got 3k for college, but classes are turning out a lot cheaper than I thought, and quite a bit is being paid for by parents. Absolute maximum I will spend is like 1k, more likely just about $500 or so. So that should help start us off.

I'm curious: I know I've been talking and , uh, bragging about Sacramento a lot (I do love it!), but if we do decide to go ahead with the temp urban commune, what areas would people want?
Zeerahks

Well, California would be nice (from what I've heard).  We probably want to be somewhere that's fairly temperate throughout the year (cut down on climate control costs).  We probably want to be somewhere that has a higher tolerance of who we are/what we're doing (no upscale snob neighborhoods, etc).  I'd personally like to be in a highly populated area (no more grain belt for me, thank you!).

Condensed for those who don't like to read (vov Very Happy ):

Year-long temperate climate
Hippy-ish neighborhood
Large population
vov35

Zeerahks wrote:

Condensed for those who don't like to read (vov Very Happy )

-_- I could've read that size paragraph.

Out of curiosity... how does one acquire a medical marijuana license?
Zeerahks

By being a cancer doctor, most likely.
vov35

... How does one go about accomplishing that....
Zeerahks

Hehe.  4 years min undergrad, 5+ years graduate, bunch more years residency, plus a bunch more years to build up cred.  By that time, marijuana will (hopefully) be legalised.
dcopulsky

When/why/how did the discussion change to something urban?

Is there a sense of when this might happen?

Some thoughts:

Particularly in an urban place, giving each person their own room limits the number of potential members, though that isn't necessarily a problem. Some people, particularly couples, are also happy to share rooms.

I'm curious what you mean, Zeerahks, by "not to be disturbed." I know I appreciate it when people knock on my door, even if it sometimes disturbed me, to invite me to do something or to talk. But I could also respect it if someone else wouldn't appreciate that. Respect for what people want seems more important than any set standard.

I think it's worth considering putting rent on a sliding scale. I think it's also worth considering allowing people to meet their commitment by spending time doing good, non-profitable work, like community service or housework. Of course, it all depends a lot of how much money is needed to sustain the community.

I think you might be severely underestimating the cost per person per month. I stayed on a co-op in Berekely for a month, with 10 people, most sharing rooms, and rent and food were $600. Which is still relatively cheap.

In the three communities I've participated in, everyone has taken turns cooking. Even people who don't know how to cook can assist someone who does. Everyone contributes and everyone learns practical skills. This seems to work really well to me, but I also like to cook.

Weekly meetings seem like a good default.

I think Berkeley is a really cool place. It's close to lots of stuff, but there are houses rather than just apartments, and there are lots of other communes/co-ops. I'm also personally curious to try living in Portland, Oregon, and I kind of love NYC.
dcopulsky

Re: Urban Commune

Zeerahks wrote:
a number of urban communes require around 60-70 dollars per month from their members.


It says "low of around $60/person/month to a high of $75/week." That puts the high at about $330, and those numbers are 35 years old.
UnMeilleurReve

In short reply for a second, it's feasible to put 3-4 people in a rental house in Caldwell, ID for 250 a month per person, 200 if you save on utilities, etc.


In long response, here is my journal entry:

The commune cannot start rural.

Not without massive, extensive funding and a lot of prelim work. However, we’ll be college graduates soon enough and theoretically capable of bringing in substantial income. Therefore, it would be in our best interest to bring in income and pool resources in order to make our ultimate goals, whatever they may be, happen.

The original communes were an Italian creation, and to some extent it would seem that Marx based his ramblings on the Italian commune model with a bit of utopianism. Mind you, I’m generalizing grossly when I talk about this, but I’m pretty sure the general idea is spot on. In those days, to my understanding, a commune operated not as a small community of any intentionality, but as a city of free men, our burgers (later bourgeois), who had escaped from or were freed from serfdom or never operated under it to begin with. They were the areas where “free trade” truly occurred, since they were free from lords and nobility. In essence, they were freely created cities outside the rule of the formal governments of the time and outside the control of any monarch or the church (though later they became dominated by individual families who took advantage of emergency executive powers).
Because of their freeform nature, they amassed great affluence, and because of the abundant affluence they gave rise to high art and thriving commerce. Florence, for example, developed intricate ways of forging coins that made their coins valuable currency for most of the world (the florin). The art of painting took hold and flourished, and so did music, carpentry, etc. Up until they fell due to inside forces, they thrived brilliantly.
With this as a precursor to thoughts about communes, it should be relatively easy to see the inherent urbanity that exists in the origins of the concept of a commune. With a bit of a philosophical overhaul and a touch of intentionality, we can take the roots of this idea and create something we can work with from the ground up.
The inherent urban nature of the commune and the sheer convenience of an urban environment lends heavily, in my mind, to starting our commune in a city. This then means that we have to find a city that is agreeable and has the resources necessary to allow us to flourish there.
Since most of us getting into this will be graduating from college soon enough, one requirement for an adequate city is the capacity for each member to find work there related to each person’s field. People who choose to go to grad school can make the urban commune their home away from school, possibly. If they can find a grad school that they fit in a city that is also agreeable, that would be another factor lending to the idealness of a location.
The second requirement is a central location in the city with affordable housing that will keep us all close (as in neighbors close, preferably). This will be quite a trick since housing markets are almost always very, very fluid if we plan to rent (which I’m assuming we are as I doubt anybody wants to take out mortgage loans and severely doubt that anybody can afford a house). Getting a real-estate firm of some sort to help with this would be advisable, since they have the resources to scour several cities to find what we’re looking for. Seeing as how, for a commune I would think, clos proximity is a necessity, the city that can provide this at most times along with a lot of jobs makes that city our ideal location. Look for a city that is rapidly expanding and that is transitional in nature and you’ll find both factors (I know Las Vegas comes to mind). I don’t travel much, but I’m sure that the right places for us exist or can be created somehow, and it doesn’t have to be in the US: Canada is always an option (if just a *cold* option).

Once we have an urban location that allows us to live near or together (how cool would a cul-de-sac of rental houses be???), the discussion must then turn to rules and distribution of resources. Oh, and I don’t know about you guys, but I think of the urban commune as a temporary fixture. We can eventually expand to make our own facilities within a city or exodus to the rural area once funds and resources are accumulated. Anywho, to the rules.

To create a communal environment conducive to anarchist “rules,” we should probably designate nearly all property as communal. This, in my mind, includes nearly everything down to clothing. We should, of course, treat all materials regardless of importance with utmost care. Also, things like underwear or sex toys or decorations should probably remain private property. However, it makes sense that nobody seems remarkably materialistic (duh, commune, haha) and, so long as things are well taken care of, if you’re not using it or planning to, somebody else should be free to (likewise if you don’t need it and somebody else does, why should you hoard it?). However, this will be a lesson in communication, because a failure to properly communicate could leave somebody poorly off for an event, date, job, etc. It also means people have to listen and remember what they hear, which means that the members of the commune have to be prioritized toward the top: like a mix between good friends and family.
Which brings me to my next point. This semester at college has given me a ton of experience and insight into close groups, and as we’ve discussed before, the possibilities for disaster are endless. It is of utmost importance that a few things occur. We need to think well of each other and genuinely like one another, which means that we should meet one another before embarking on this road, and if we discover later (after we’ve begun) that somebody is outright disliked or unwelcome, it could cause nasty divisions. Ever meet a group breaker? Anybody can become one very easily simply by giving reason for people to choose sides (and honestly, nobody is ever wrong in this sort of thing, but it sucks to be divided). However, I’ve discovered that being comfortable with physical contact with one another (head rubs, back scratches, neck/face/back rubs/caresses, etc.) makes for a great way to build companionship and friendly intimacy. Also, so long as a person does not enter a group solely because of ties through a romantic relationship and is likeable and involved (even if they do enter through relationships, sometimes people are just a good fit), relationships are only a problem to group dynamics in the case of insecure drama-queens or outright infidelity (nobody likes betrayal). I’ve actually seem to have found the most secure and intimate possible friend circle imaginable thanks to a bunch of freshies I met.
I’d like to propose, on a minor sidenote, that we all start some sort of group on an online game for now and get steady interaction going in that capacity. That way we can get to know each other in a non-intellectual manner.
It would also be advisable to come up with ample modes of transportation or go into a city with  incredible public transportation (portland?).
As for resources we need, the list for lving in an urban environment is simple and self-explanatory, and can depend a lot more on liquid capital since we will be close to supplies and not subsistence-farming. Clothes, dishes, cooking utensils, pots and pans, beds, clothes, sheets, something to do (board games, computer, books, art and craft supplies), lights, blankets, stove, oven, microwave, furniture, desks, tables, chairs, shelves, utilities. Anything else that we have is just a bonus.
As for the subject of chores, I mentioned a moment ago that we should keep everything as clean as possible as we use it or are done with it. Yes, it may take some getting used to, but it keeps us from letting it become a problem and will lower our stress levels overall. When it comes to the periodic chores (which if property is communal will mean, in your own abode, sweeping, mopping, dusting, cleaning out the tub and toilet, watering plants, and laundry), it might be a good idea to have most of them occur on a daily basis (sounds absurd, but imagine how clean we’d be) so that the chore is always a light one and it gets hard to forget. We should also take into account that people are sometimes busy for one reason or another and may not be able to do their share during their turn, so we should be considerate and be willing to cover for one another. Otherwise, I only see a system of some sort becoming necessary if a problem of some sort arises. Does everybody know whether they are good roomies or not?
Additionally, one’s room being an inviolate sanctuary is necessary to each person’s sanity (unless they’re in a romantic relationship or are otherwise totally comfortable with the other person). Those things that one is unwilling to share or uses extremely often should be kept there and each person can set their own rules for their room and “private property.”

A little while ago, my friend showed ma a little video somebody put together called “the anarchist’s schedule book” or something of the sort. I’ll link it when I can. Basically, what I’m getting at is that it would be a good idea for people to get themselves a schedule book and use it. It really does help. I’m starting to schedule myself and it makes me feel a hell of a lot more productive for myself. For a commune, however, if we created an open (closed circuit) schedule book for group use, it would open an easy avenue of communication and keep people up to date as to what’s going on.

So, basically, an urban commune would not be a hard thing to put together. The concept is relatively self-explanatory, and the resources are a lot simpler to put together. What I particularly like about the whole idea is that it opens a way for us to be together, learn about each other, observe our dynamics and how things operate in a communal lifestyle without scarce resources and survival being dependent on each other’s efficiency. The other thing I like is that it would make it convenient for us to plan the ultimate goal, whatever it may be, on a regular basis and with aid of paper, charts, diagrams, sitting and talking, continual discussion, etc.

And now for my personal touch. I’m working on something huge. Really, really huge. This may carry on to grad school afor me, but regardless it’ll give me something to come out of college with a running start AND start us out or make us into a non-profit organization.
Fully written out, just the abstract for this project is about 10 pages single space (not including the integration for our uses as a commune). What it is, really, is an “advocacy” program. Very few colleges and universities, to my knowledge, have something like this, and the college I go to has an extremely unique program indeed. What my college has is an actual program to train advocates who are impartial, neutral, but compassionate “advocates” whose job it is to be available 24/7 (there’s a system for this that cycles through people so that it’s not everybody always) if you need tot talk. They are specially trained to handle traumatic incidents (indeed, the first course offered in this is titled “theory of trauma advocacy”) and present you with whatever relevant options that they know of that are available to the person who may need them. They sometimes act in a mediation capacity and deal with things from relationship abuse to rape to past events to PTSD to suicide to homesickness to you name it. To do this job you don’t have to be a counselor (in fact, you’re not supposed to operate in a psychologist’s capacity unless you are one for this), you just have to present people with what they can do, what options they have, and keep up with them.
The project I’m embarking upon is to standardize and expand this program to apply outside just the college setting, to bring it out to communities using colleges and universities as a jumping point. I want to make this especially available to radical and anarchist communities, etc., and to move it to a self-sufficient, self-sustaining, self-replicating, and permanent-fixture capacity.
How this applies to the commune and non-profit is that, once I’m done, we can operate as an open and accredited sanctuary and shelter. I will also be able to personally train every member as an advocate, making them sanctuary/shelter personnel and making every function of our commune as a function of our organization and helping other people (when we don’t have somebody we’re working with, it’s upkeep!). We’d need to set aside space, rooms, and resources to act as a shelter and sanctuary (drop-in shelter, place for advice and finding resources to deal with crises, and sanctuary), but this shouldn’t be too hard (basically make our living capacity equal more than our actual residency).
It’d be fun to see (and we’ll need a few lawyers to do so) if we can pass off all of our living resources and utilities and food as operating costs if we’re also using them for the benefit of other people as well.

As for the great Exodus of the Liberty Gardens goes, if things in the city go well enough, we can buy our properties, expand and build our own facilities in the city. If we decide to still go rural, we can use the urbane commune to gather resources and plan, etc. Whatever it is we decide to do, it should be decided after we’ve gathered at our selected location. I suggest holding weekly scheduled meetings once we’re together to make decisions specifically toward that. If we do exodus, we can give our previous resources to another group with similar aspirations to allow them to do the same thing (with us to use as pioneer example if they need it).



So, there are my tentative thoughts. I shall give it more thought soon. Hope everybody is having a good break, and look forward to *your* thoughts.
Zeerahks

@dan

The discussion changed after Selkie mentioned that LeReveur had mentioned something (wonderful hearsay, no?) about an temporary urban commune.  We've kinda been working under a near future (next 1-3 years) as a starting date, preferably sooner than later.

You've more hit the point that I had.  Respect and consideration really are a couple of the most necessary things to living with others.

I hadn't noticed the date on the paper (thanks), and you're correct: rent will be much higher now.

@leRev

Mein Gott!  Longest post I've ever seen, and chock full of information to boot!  Very Happy

Where to start?  I'll start near the end.


--"Advocates"

I really like this idea.  I'm the son of a psychologist, so I know how helpful having someone to talk to can be who can put things in a bit more order for me!  I'd be very willing to learn from you.

On the note of pet projects, I'll put out mine.  I'm very interested in martial arts and self defense.  I train in Aikido, which puts great emphasis on not hurting your opponent while you're defending yourself.  Unfortunately, Aikido is not at all a good art for use in a real setting.  My project is to, in a way, adapt Aikido for greater use as a practical self-defense, while injuring your opponent as little as possible.  I hope to eventually open an Aikido dojo, and use that space as a training area for the new version.


--Exodus

It might be nice to eventually (read: as soon as we feasibly can) buy utterly the property on which the urban commune is located.  It'll take a lot (a LOT) of money, but on the other hand, we'll no longer have to pay rent.  We may want to calculate out how long we'd have to be there for it to be worthwhile to buy the property.

I agree, having an urban staging area will be a very nice tool.  As for leaving the urban Gardens behind, we may want to think about expanding our efforts, establishing (and helping establish) other communes around the country (and, eventually, the world).


--Shedules

Ehh.  I've never been a big fan of sheduling myself.  My life revolves around events, not times.  Also, I very much value free time, as I can use it any way I see fit (I enjoy spontaneous traveling).  However, I can't say I'm unwilling to try it out (though I'll probably end up putting "Out" or "In" on large blocks of time! Very Happy )


--Cleaning

The best way to go about it is to simply clean up a mess as soon as it's made (or as soon as you can afterwards).  This eliminates a lot of the tension, as well as the need for setting aside large blocks of time to clean the whole place.

(on the note of differing personalities, might I recommend a variable shower head?  Very Happy )


--Interaction

I like the idea of an online game, but unfortunately there aren't many games I play online (except for CoD4!).  What about a place like Second Life?  It's not a game, technically, but it would give us a good place to meet and converse, especially if our meetings were scheduled.


--Property

While I agree with you on the idea that most nearly everything should be communal, I think that there are a few things that should be privately owned.  Clothing, for instance, is naturally unfit for communal use, as the majority of the clothing will not fit other members.  Oh, and I apologize, but while anyone is welcome to use my laptop, I'm sorry to insist that they ask first. (it's quite dear to me, you see).  As I have my computer, I can very much respect that other people will have items that are of great personal value to them that they are unwilling to declare communal property.


--Caldwell

More details about the town?  Population?  Location?  etc...


That's my two cents.  It's remarkably incomplete, and doesn't address everything you've said.  But it comes close, I think.  Smile
vov35

This is where condensed text might be useful... unlike that four line paragraph. sorry, but I am feeling too lazy to read that.
Selkie

Zeerahks wrote:
Year-long temperate climate
Hippy-ish neighborhood
Large population


That's midtown/downtown Sacramento Razz
Selkie

I went and re-researched rents (I had been planning on moving into the area some time ago) in midtown, it's actually fairly cheap I think, for California at least, for example 3 bedroom houses are around $1k a month, which split up among the whole group shouldn't be too bad (how many people do we have anyways?) and LeRev says he has some get-rich plan LOL. 2 bedroom houses/apts are quite a bit cheaper, around $700-800. I think Berkeley is insanely expensive by the way.
vov35

As far as people go... I probably won't be in the urban commune.
UnMeilleurReve

In caldwell, a 4 bedroom house with a yard goes for 800 a month. A 2 bedroom goes for about 500. Utilities are really, really cheap usually, and I'm assuming we'd be using relatively as little as possible to keep prices down. In Vegas and Henderson, a 2 bedroom apartment goes for about 950-1050 a month (including small utilities). And from what I hear, the east coast is a place not worth researching when it comes to rent and property values.

Caldwell is peculiar. It's relatively liberal but considered to be conservative, there is a weekly farmer's market, there was a "peace picnic in the park" I wasn't able to attend and classes on organic gardening. It's a college town, there being 3 colleges present in the area not including Boise State University in nearby Boise. I'm getting ready to start a community garden (guerilla garden style) and there's a lot of land. It's in a semi-rural area (farms surrounding the city) and is close to Nampa, which is a bit bigger. Any questions about the area are welcome.

And personally, I think apartments suck ass unless we have people okay with noise. Oh, and anything more than 700 a month for 3 bedrooms is kinda.... blehck. However, we could find a property owner and see if we can come to some sort of arrangment.
Zeerahks

I'm liking Caldwell more and more.  College's are good, it'd have to be fairly large for it to support three of them.  Plus, it seems to be much cheaper...
vov35

LeReveur wrote:
In caldwell, a 4 bedroom house with a yard goes for 800 a month.

house... like not apartment?
UnMeilleurReve

Yes. Like house. I just moved into a studio apartment for 180 a month including utilities and 2 types of wireless internet. The entire downtown area is wired with wi-fi Very Happy

Two problems with Caldwell: jobs are scarce and grad school stuff is relatively non-existant.

Two benefits: cheap housing and a fluctuating housing market (as well as housing developments that have turned into ghost towns meaning lots of open houses next to each other, last I heard).
Zeerahks

I'm liking it more and more...
vov35

LeReveur wrote:
The entire downtown area is wired with wi-fi Very Happy


You mean like un-wired...  Laughing
UnMeilleurReve

The "Division of Labor" post brought an important thought to my mind...

Just to make sure we don't get totally sidetracked from everything we have previously discussed, we should probably be thinking of how to implement our ideas for the rural commune into the urban commune.

For example, growing as much of our own food as possible (for example, get a trash can and you can make a super-super-super-easy method of harvesting a large quantity of potatoes), working toward making our homes off-the-grid, using natural light and generating as much of our own belongings as possible which seemed to be the idea behind the commune in the first place, etc.

This also makes the urban commune our testing grounds for anything we are considering implementing in the rural commune, if the plan is still to move onto our own land.
Selkie

I'm really starting to like the Caldwell idea. Actually moving there would be a bit difficult since it's so far away and I'd need help from anyone living in CA.

I may have missed it but if we are seriously thinking about the urban commune, would this be before or after college? I've been scanning through the threads so probably missed it. If it's during college hopefully there's a college with journalism around or a newspaper that has low standards Wink

The lack of jobs sounds worrying, if we're going to be paying rent and there aren't many jobs we could find ourselves in a lot of trouble. I still have about 2k for college though I'm planning on signing up for scholarships and aid next semester.

Quote:
I’d like to propose, on a minor sidenote, that we all start some sort of group on an online game for now and get steady interaction going in that capacity. That way we can get to know each other in a non-intellectual manner.


Berior and I liked this idea. I suggested a D&D forum game since it doesn't require us to all be on at the same time and is something we seem to all like (as far as I remember). There's a website that supports D&D forum games that we can set up a private game on if we like.

Beyond that, all I can think of that doesn't have a monthly subscription is Guild Wars, but you do have to buy it and it runs pretty slow on my poor lappy. If there's any simple free online games...

As for Rev's roommate comment I should talk about the kind of roommate I am.

Berior and I are pretty messy though we'll generally clean up after ourselves outside of private spaces...well at least I do and I'm pretty sure he does too. I'm a pretty easygoing person and don't cause drama and try to be as polite and un-annoying as possible. I don't mind helping out and generally do whatever I'm asked but I have a REALLY bad memory so I tend to forget what to do very quickly.  Embarassed
Zeerahks

Quote:
would this be before or after college?


I was figuring after college.  I'll be done in anywhere from 1-2 years, and would be willing to jump straight into this.  Another part to this is that not all of us are going to graduate at the same time (i think), so we might want to think about that...

Quote:
I suggested a D&D forum game


Does it have to be 4.0?  3.5 ftw, plz?  Very Happy
Selkie

Does ANYONE like 4? XD Berior and I certainly don't lol.

I guess starting after college is fine, though you're right some might take longer than 1-2 years...maybe some of us start out in 2 years then the rest trickle in?
Zeerahks

Lol.

I think it might be a good idea to have at least three-four people (minimum) to start with, and the rest can come whenever it works for them (come for college, or come after college, either way).  That way we can have a stable base when the rest arrive.

Sooo, yeah.  Basically what you said, Selkie!  Very Happy

So, besides me, who else can/is willing to start in a couple years?
UnMeilleurReve

Well, I'm definitely staying through college for my bachelors, and I was planning on a doctorate, which means I'll be getting my B.A. in 2011. However, I'm the only one that I know of that can theoretically commit to things if we choose Caldwell immediately.

(3.5 ftw, but I do have to admit there are aspects of 2.0 that I like better).
Selkie

LeReveur wrote:
Well, I'm definitely staying through college for my bachelors, and I was planning on a doctorate, which means I'll be getting my B.A. in 2011. However, I'm the only one that I know of that can theoretically commit to things if we choose Caldwell immediately.

(3.5 ftw, but I do have to admit there are aspects of 2.0 that I like better).


Yea...I know Berior & I will only be able to join in once we can actually move, since I'll be moving from Cali and him from all the way in Belgium since he's not a citizen yet Surprised
vov35

LeReveur wrote:


(3.5 ftw, but I do have to admit there are aspects of 2.0 that I like better).



I have no idea what the hell you're talking about  Laughing




I won't be joining at first, for concerns of... I'm still in high school FFS
Selkie

vov35 wrote:
LeReveur wrote:


(3.5 ftw, but I do have to admit there are aspects of 2.0 that I like better).



I have no idea what the hell you're talking about  Laughing




I won't be joining at first, for concerns of... I'm still in high school FFS


You are?!  Shocked

What state do you live in? You may actually be able to graduate early like I did  Very Happy
vov35

Maryland. Shit I just realized that I can't really type when I am on this much stimulant AAAAA fingerspamzzzza
Zeerahks

Can we get either a separate forum category or a sub forum for the Urban Commune?

Meanwhile:

Since it seems that LeReve and I will be able to start the urban commune (names?  Sticking w/ Liberation Garden(s)?) in a year or so (next summer, LeReve?), I'd like to put for a few rules (dislike that word), excuse me: guidelines, for your approval.

So, without further adieu:

1: Do not take action that will intentionally harm your commune-mates without their express approval beforehand.

2: Pay your way; that is, either help pay the rent for the building, or help out more around the house, doing chores to "pay" for your room and board.

3: Don't unnecessarily destroy parts of the commune.

4: Absolutely no proselytizing!  We're all tolerant people, until you start pushing your beliefs onto us.  This includes all beliefs, not just religious ones!  Feel free to argue constructively, but simply spouting rhetoric is the equivalent of a long walk off a short pier for you.

5: Trust your mates as far as you can; we're all in this together.

6: Related to numbers 1 and 5, please don't bring illegal stuff into the commune without consulting the rest of us first (drugs, etc).  

I'm personally open to having all soft drugs, but I'm strongly against the hard ones (especially alcohol and cigarettes).

Now, obviously, there's a lot of areas that I haven't touched (I don't know what most of them are, otherwise I'd have mentioned them!  Very Happy  Such things as decision-making, division of chores, etc)

Feel free to post any additions/changes, but I'd like to keep this as short and succint as possible.
glorfon

Zeerahks wrote:
Can we get either a separate forum category or a sub forum for the Urban Commune?


I could just turn over the forum to the Urban Commune.
Guest

So has everyone realized that they are over-thinking this way too much?  Or that by the time you finish with school and pick up a career you aren't going to be in a position really to start a commune?
Or has everyone simply moved on because the fantasy of a commune was so much cooler than the effort required to make it work?
For some reason you all stopped posting over a year ago.  I would simply like to know if you gave up on the idea.
I hope that you didn't, and the reason this forum seems to have died is that the commune is in fact being born and starting to come together.
UnMeilleurReve

So far as I'm aware, it's a waiting game. Most of us intend to finish college. Myself, the commune is a definite goal and reality in my mind, though we haven't gotten it officially "started" yet.

As for overthinking, it's my opinion that intentionality and consciousness are two of the most useful and least harnessed energies we as people are capable of.

Additionally, my personal goals have the commune as one facet, indeed one of the easier ones, of a much grander scheme. However, it is an *integral* facet, seeing as how it will dictate the means of subsistence.

Nice to meet you, Chill.

How about it? Anybody else still here, still in? I expect Selkie and her man to be in, right? Zee, you still need to finish school? And Vov, still in once you're of age and finished with high school? Christie (Tuff) may still be interested, but it seemed to me she was much more interested the final product. Glor seemed to have dropped the idea, probably, and wants to work his land?

And have I already suggested Hamilton, MT, because of the commune, workable land, and hOURs barter system?
Zeerahks

Hey; still here.

My story is similar.  I'm still in college, and will be for one more year, then I'm done, and no plans after.  I have my goals, though they are much more related to personal development, and have little concreteness to them.  

I've changed a lot in the past few months, the biggest changes simply being a better understanding of who I am, but I'm still very interested in starting a commune.

And no, I don't think we're overthinking this at all.  Thinking ahead saves us from having to do as much social problem solving during the process.  And while I know we'll have to do it anyway, we can totally save ourselves some hassle if we plan ahead.

And I'm glad we have a new member.  Very Happy
vov35

still here, gotta finish HS, and wait another year before I can help due to friends who wish to go collectively in such projects.
UnMeilleurReve

A random thought, but Detroit is being all abandoned and stuff. Maybe we could do something with this? I'm thinking this deserves a road trip.


And along the same vein, for the urban community, we could shoot some letters to various cities and see if they'd be willing to work for us. Something like "Hey, we're looking into developing a self-sufficient, sustainable, green community, and all we really need is a place to do it."
glorfon

Kansas City, where I currently am, is #3 in urban blight after Detroit and Cleveland.  There are all sorts of empty lots and vacant buildings for us to work with.  Plus a better growing season than Detroit.  I already have some connections to the activist community here that we could tap.

EDIT: Like this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y...gE&feature=player_profilepage
UnMeilleurReve

Sounds good to me. If we can find a nice, friendly city with a big, abandoned section of their city, we're in business for the urban aspect?

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