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Defense: natural and communal
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UnMeilleurReve
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 542


Location: Las Vegas

Post Defense: natural and communal  Reply with quote
In case defense ever becomes an issue:

Should we look into obtaining land near a river or cliff? Should we build mostly underground? Should we set deadfalls on our land or in any secretive facilities?

Most importantly, are we going to be actively spreading the word about making communes, overriding the capitalist system, or otherwise acting subversively and radically?

Will we need defenses? Should we be armed? Should we be able to pick up and move quickly?

So, in this order.
1) do we want to worry about natural defenses?
2) do we want to be openly, militantly defensive?
3) should we look into mechanics and engineering, or rather, should we build traps, etc., for our own defense?
4) are we going to be active outside of the commune if we can sustain ourselves and need secretive facilities?
Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:14 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
glorfon
Comrade


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 469



Post Re: Defense: natural and communal Reply with quote
No, If you ever intend to start a commune you can build near a cliff or river but for this one I'm sticking with what I have and mabey buying land that borders on mine.
Yes, we should build mostly underground not necessarily for defense though.
No.
Yes, kinda.  In particular I like the idea of encouraging starting new communes.  However I like capitalism (I know it sounds weird but let's not start this argument in this thread).
Hopefully no.
Yes.
Kind of.  I don't think everything needs to be portable but we should be ready to all leave for a week or so if necessary.
1. Yes, I'm thinking at least a boarder of trees.
2. No.
3. No comment
4. Yes we should be active.  I don't know what you mean by secret facilities but it'd be nice to have some where to go if we need to leave for a little while.
Thu May 01, 2008 3:07 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
vov35
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 553



Post Reply with quote
but a hidden gun or two won't hurt now ill it?

border of trees, plus barbed wire...


traps FTW!
or at least secret underground areas.
Thu May 01, 2008 3:33 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
glorfon
Comrade


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 469



Post Reply with quote
I have no opposition to hidden guns.  The barbed wire we could do if we know there is a good chance of attack but other wise if we build defenses without being threatened it will look suspicious.
Thu May 01, 2008 5:57 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
UnMeilleurReve
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 542


Location: Las Vegas

Post Reply with quote
Hidden weapons and defenses stores under everything. Razorwire, etc.
Thu May 01, 2008 11:08 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
vov35
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 553



Post Reply with quote
well... razorwire is obvious, but an electrified, barbed wire fence is a normal occurrence around farmland to keep pests out.

so we plan on making a tunnel system, right?
so, secret rooms. or seperate sections.
Fri May 02, 2008 3:47 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
UnMeilleurReve
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 542


Location: Las Vegas

Post Reply with quote
The work that goes into digging underground and making tunnel systems is really backbreaking and extensive, but I'm totally in for it. I've actually been planning out things like that for a while (like how one could do it in their own rented home without being found out, schematics, etc.). Since it's in Iowa, I don't think we'll have to worry about kalichi, but we will have to worry about groundwater. Groundwater makes wellmaking easier, but tunneling and making underground compounds more difficult. The up side to an underground compound is that we maximize our operating, living, and storage space, but the actual construction is difficult. You have to dig the entire hole first if you want equal sized rooms, and if you want to go deeper than the only real way to do so safely is incrementally smaller rooms or extremely strong support beams. Tunnels need to be secured and cement works best (arches proved extra structural integrity), but you have to make the damned things and then get the cement in, and you'll probably want to make the cement in there and then build everything since premaking things brings in even more complications (though I could be wrong). However, another option for the tunnels is to dig trenches, lay the tunnels inside, and bury it.

I recommend possibly making the entire living area, complex, buildings, etc., underground to maximize security and efficiency and allow much more land to be used for farming, etc. However, security risks come with underground facilities. The air can become contaminated, water can seep in and mold, water and roots can deteriorate the structural integrity, spiders and bugs like it down there, biological or chemical attacks are harder to defend against, air circulation systems become a must and provide an opening for attack or infiltration, etc.
Fri May 02, 2008 6:41 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
vov35
Dirt-Under-The-Nails Hippy


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 553



Post Reply with quote
holy shit, fucking genius, there's groundwater! there's a major water source!!!

I don't think its to hard to 'acquire' an air filtration system, plus some co2 scrubbers in case of emergency. A simple fan can drive air.

there was something in the wiki about ferrocement.
its iron wire (to hold the shape), coated with cement. that might work for walls. and its also going to be a shitload of work...
Sat May 03, 2008 12:50 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
tuffenoughtorock
Questioner


Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 52


Location: Iowa

Post Reply with quote
I guess we should be asking ourselves first what are potential threats that we may need to defend ourselves against, then formulate any strategies or methods of defense off of that.  I'm just wondering in terms of human threats, natural threats, etc.
Wed May 07, 2008 6:14 pm View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
glorfon
Comrade


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 469



Post Reply with quote
I honestly don't see it being very likely that the national guard is going to come marching. So guns and barbed wire seem useless to me.  I'm not oposed to having them if we need them but If we put up a bunch of defences than people will wonder what were up to.

A bigger threat is tornados.  If we build underground thought this won't be an issue.  However we might want to design the windmills so that they can be taken down and mabey even inside if there's a major storm.


Thu May 08, 2008 12:51 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
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